Looking at… HS2 Consultation Question 5

From the Consultation documents:

The questions on which the Government is seeking views are set out below. In each case, the Government is interested in whether or not you agree with its proposals and why, as well as any additional evidence that you feel it should consider in reaching its final decisions.

v) This question is about the route for the line between London and the West Midlands (Chapter 5 and Annex B): Do you agree that the Government’s proposed route, including the approach proposed for mitigating its impacts, is the best option for a new high speed rail line between London and the West Midlands?

As the principles on which the route were based are invalid, this question is invalid.

For it to be valid, it would have to be shown that there was an economic case for building a high speed railway – currently the subject of a Transport Select Committee Inquiry – and that the design principles, such as speed, were appropriate.  The Department for Transport have not demonstrated either of these.

Therefore the Stop HS2 answer is “no”.

29 comments to “Looking at… HS2 Consultation Question 5”
  1. Gary have you not thought that by the time it is proposed that HS2 is running, that electric cars will be much more advanced and therefore much greener.

    • Yes Elaine – and so will biofuel technology……..you can t argue that the internal combustion engine is a very efiicient machine…….

  2. Gary – I was just reading the thread on another post (about the transport select committe inquiry I think) and your response to Mr Bored (who has advised us to ignore you!).

    I was trying to understand why you think that no -one has done any research on this site and its just for Nimby’s? Have you looked at the “Facts” tab. You will see that a wealth of research has been done by many people that have contributed to this site – from alternative business cases to alternative options.

    You said you don’t care whether the line gets built or not -and want information – if you are not getting it here can you not just stop blogging and read the anti HS2 research instead? Surely that would give you the facts you need to understand why many people (and not just those on the route) are opposed to it.

    I have actually gone off the idea altogether of posting any facts on this site as everything seems to turn into nasty twisted personal abuse. Its a real shame.

    I am wondering if that is actually the intention of the pro HS2 bloggers on here?

    • Nell – I d point out that I ve not hurled any personal abuse at anyone, i certainly havent called anyone a bore!!!!!

      In terms of research , i keep seeing links to a variety of topics, but when I put direct questions to you guys, you seem to avoid answering?. One poster mentioned that the business case was flawed, when I asked where, I never got an answer???. Its all very well pointing out as the strapline to your site – ” no business case, no environmental case and no money ” etc….but you guys seem unable to put together some decent reasoning. In fact the only thing you seem to have told me so far is that you agree that rail capacity is lacking…and having just seen the Dispatches programme on C4, its seriously lacking in some areas. So how do we address that??

      By definition , rail is a greener form of transport as you agree, so asking people to use their cars goes against what we all believe to be right……so realistically we absolutely have to increase capacity. Which is happening ….slowly. The Chilterns dont exist in a bubble…..its is inevitable that there will be some land take no matter which project is implemented. But of course when Beeching arrived in the 60s, the rail industry gave up some 60% of what it had and returned it to the nation for a variety of uses…….my own house for example sits beside a disused rail line which is now a bridle path. Roll forward to the 21st century, the nation now needs some of that back to accomodate passenger numbers which are now virtually at the highest levels in rail history. In other words, since Beeching, ” the facts have changed “.

      • ‘since beeching the facts have changed’

        Listen Gary you keep going over and over the same ground and I think the administrator should have a rule that some one who incessantly blogs like you,should have the number of blogs that are allowed to be published here limited to 1 a day so that the rest of us don’t get bored.

  3. Gary – interestingly the evergreen project was subject to a Public Inquiry – have you wondered why this isn’t the case for HS2 when its a much bigger investment? and not privately funded?

  4. If anyone talks to Lizzie williams, could they let her know I am still waiting for a reply as to what she meant by her comment, ‘We know who you are’ that she made in response to a post I made on 12 March?

    Thank you

    • I wouldnt hold your breath Ian…….these guys appear to have a reputation for avoiding straight answers….

    • She answered you in the thread about Chequers, but you are asking the same thing in so many different places, no wonder you missed it. MrBored has it right, you guys are boringly repetative, like Mr Hammond, who hasn’t any answers to the arguments, but just likes name-calling.

      • Ther is no argument – you guys have already admitted we need extra rail capacity. Mr Bored somewhat scuttled away after I mentioned the Evergreen Project……is there any brand new rail line being built as part of that ??

        • Maybe MrBored scuttled away because he wants to read about HS2 on a website about HS2. There are other websites about other railway projects. If you can find a website about the Evergreen project, maybe you will find the answers to your questions there.

            • http://www.chiltern-evergreen3.co.uk/

              Amazing what you find on this stopHS2 site, some really helpful posts on here.

              Anyway, from what I can see on the above link , there appears to be some brand new rail being laid as part of this project, which from what the strapline says, is designed to improve links to London with faster and more frequent services.

              Also I couldnt help but notice ( I hadnt seen this before ) a project called East-West rail……which looks like it will be at right angles to WCML, MML ECML…..and potentially HS2. Certainly plenty going on as far as investment in the rail network around the M40 corridor. Does anyone know if there are protest groups set up against these? Id be interested to see the views of local people as part of my own project…

        • Gazza – people don’t ‘scuttle away’ – they merely have lives to get on with….busy Gazza? Just imagine…getting paid for what you do!

            • An interesting statistic regards long distance commuting. In South Bucks alone, the number of people working from home increased from 2,530 in 1991 to 3,960 in 2001 – that’s a percentage increase of 56%.

              Who exactly are all these business people forcast to use HS2?

            • Station 2004/05 2008/09 % increase

              Bow Brickhill 22415 31664 41
              Great Missenden 488000 527000 8
              Milton Keynes 3815000 4646000 22
              Taplow 149000 196000 32
              Wendover 410000 429000 4

              London Marylebone 6900000 11000000 60

              Heres some interesting stats regarding passenger usage of a random 5 stations I ve just looked at in Bucks. As we can see, some significant increases all round. A very interesting one is London Marylebone at the end of the Chiltern Line…….its the fastest growing rail station in London !!!

              So it there is an increase in the number of people working from home as per D Owen, and also a big incease in rail use in Bucks, just what is everybody else not doing nowadays???

            • Marylebone was planned for closure and conversion to a coach station before the revival and expansion of rail services in the past twenty years.

              That involved closing the Wycombe line north of Princes Risborough, just as the Missenden, Wendover line was cut short north of Aylesbury in 1966, part of the reason that we now lack capacity and alternative routes for the future.

              Travelling to Banbury from Scotland yesterday, I was quiite surprised and pleased to find all the trains so well filled throughout the afternoon.

    • Ian you really are sounding a bore – please let it go. Its quite clear she has! You need to move on mate!

      This is meant to be a place to debate the HS2 issues but sadly its all becoming a little bit too personal and a place to rant rather than inform. I wonder if thats the idea?

      Unless you are doing or saying anything untoward then I don’t see why you should have such an issue.

      lets all just take a deep breath and have some constructive debate. rather than the lunacy of name calling/threats etc

  5. Good comment Penny. I have heard people living right next to the route suggesting that it be moved. In truth the whole project is questionable so suggesting an alternate path through less sensitive areas does not indeed answer the question!

  6. Penny – am I right in saying that if you thought the question was a valid one, your answer would still be “no”?

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