HS2 Consultation – alternative language summaries

1. Pingback: STOP HS2 | Three weeks left of the HS2 Consultation

2. Morris just seen your comment about my husband and the idea of getting support was the last thing on my mind .It was to illustrate to you that there are so many people working hard in difficult circumstances all over britain .We are not rich ,we have had a bit of luck but what we have we want to keep, If i felt that this train would transform the country i would have no felt so against it.inspite of the damage it will do to my area if it was built .Anyway i found you comment totally unnessasary ,it certainly shows an unpleasant side to your character.You obviously enjoy poking sticks at people ,so to speak.Actually had i wanted people to support I would have said my late husband he worked hard from a lad on his parents rented farm and was 52.Has that changed anything about hs2 no of course it hasnt .I hope that it has made you think a bit more though about what is important in life.Always look at tjhings from both sides please.

   • elaine, then why say that about your husband in the frist place. I not a person that ponits sticks at people but you siad it in the first not me. Network rail ( or for the old name BR) is the second or third biggest land owner in the country next to the queen and the church and saying the a very narrow strip of land through a field will be the size of manchester, yes it may be if you roll the whole length up but its only a narrow strip of land they are building not a new city. So how will a very narrow strip in a field have the at affect on you. again it sound like you dont know what you are talking about!!.

     I live in a small village that will be affected be HS2 or thro by a little about. The whole of HS2 will have a very little impact on any vilage and i bet you dont live by any railway line at the moment like I do. So tell me that i dont know what I am going on about, please get your fact right.

     • I do know what i am talking about Morris. You said not much land will be taken just a small strip, but taken together it will take a large area that is growing food that you no doubt eat .It will take trees that help to keep you breathing.These areas that you are happy to see dissapear include sports areas that help people to destress at the end of the week.Lakes and pleasant places to walk.I am sorry that you live near a railway .i could not stand the noise.There is the likely hood of an enterprize zone being set up not far from me .I do not want it but it will create LOCAL jobs so i have no right to object. HS2 is not going to create them ,it will not help them.It costs too much for the jobs they say it will make and it is too far in the future to do any good for the people who need the over crowding addressed now like Milton Keynes for example.

       • Is that your best you can come up with, trees for breathing and dig up valuable food production land. With regards to both HS2 is only a narrow strip of land approx 100m wide, your whole argument is very very limited. I will say if that the best a anti supporter can come up with. In your words “I am sorry that you live near a railway .i could not stand the noise” the only aswer is to build and you to move. again not in my back yard argument.

         • There are plenty of reasons Morris and they have all been aired on this site in the past.You obviosly did not read all that i wrote as you still insist on taking up on the childish name calling as bullies do.Please read the data given in detail not just what suits you.You will see how other places in Europe are having to cut back on high speed due to cost and there trains in some cases give a huge reduction in times of journey.Also note that they cost a lot less to build.

           • Elaine – but your best argument is very poor and does not hold up. Yes it will cost billions but it will made jobs in return and inprove the Whole Uk in return. But your argument that the route will dig up trees is of funny and made my day, it was so funny. The whole argument for stophs2 is so funny again

3. Morris I do know farmers that while not exactly on the breadline are just scraping a living.My brother in law is one ,he spends long hours in the winter fixing the motors of various machines when you no doubt are sat in the warm.Also you say about how small an area of land will be taken for the track.It would cover an area the size of Manchester.I do not call that small.Please stop going on about things you clearly know nothing about.

4. “What has school uniforms got to do with HS2?” Yes yes the typical pro-HS2 thought pattern – he keeps on blaming me for being a stuck up country person and yet he seems to think that £33 billion is a good way to spend money. My point morris is that there are people living below the poverty line all over the UK not just in Manchester and building this line will not help them. As you will know living by the WCML vast sums (although not as vast as these) have been spent on it in the past few years upgrading links between London and Birmingham/Manchester. When will the rest of the country get a look in?

   As for house prices, the average West Midlands house price is 190586 and the average Warwickshire house price is 210978. If you think that is a big difference I suggest you visit your local estate agent.

   • Yes the upgrading of WCML was a lot of monies but when was the line built? and most of the money for the upgrade went on flatting out the bends dsgin and building new bridges for the exrtra tracks, so building it from new there will be none of this and we can build a stright line and again you have not aswered the question what has school uniforms got to do with HS2?
     Yes there are people living poverty line but HS2 is going to bring jobs to the whole counrty.

     Your house prices are very low may i ask where did you get them from? and did you compair like for like or just the average as that is a very easy way to error to make.

     elaine what has you husband as you say with one arm got to do HS2 or is that a way to get public support?

     • HS2 isn’t going to give jobs to the whole country and as the government is determined to get it built by China it will mean our own rail industry will suffer. Only last month the government decided to order new trains from germany rather than derby and so 3000 people are likely to be made redundant and have to get job seekers’ allowance and other benefits. If the government is so commited to jobs and rail then why are they cutting jobs and destroying our train building industry to save literally a few million on a hundred million pound train order?

       As for my housing figures they came from NEA and when you say compare like for like OK so average is not best way of measuring it but I think you’ll find very few people in Warwickshire live in seven figure houses that push up the average while the majority live in homes valued in the low 200k region. I’m sure there are some very expensive houses in Birmingham too.

       • Yes HS2 will bring jobs to the whole country or who is going to build it and maintance it. Yes Bombardier has just lost a single contract to build new trains but this is a single contract, again please check who owns Bombardier in the first place. Bombardier is not the only tarin builder in the UK. You say the goverment are determined to build the trains in China do you know something that we dont?

         The stophs2 is going to cost billions in construction, yes i agree thats billions but who is going to build it – the Uk workforce so that investing in the Uk. Even if the company the build it is not a Uk film most of the construction cost will be spent in the Uk

         Yes as normal you have not aswered the question regarding house prices. To compair the average is one way to look at it but a Better is to compair like for like that on the size of the property. So that you understand this in laymans – that compairing a 3bed to a 3bed with the same floor plans and size of plot.

         • Bombardier are , I think , Canadian but do virtually all of the work at Derby . So that is fine . Siemens are German and I believe only do the finishing at Tyne and Wear . Bombardier have work for another 3 years so by the time the HS2 trains get built may not even be about .

           As for who is going to build the line . My best bet would be an army of Eastern Europeans who will then stay in the country when the job is done .

5. Morris i do not know what you are getting at.There are rich and poor in all parts of the country.Some have worked hard and had luck on their side some have been born in an area where it is hard to get on the ladder out of poverty.Through saving hard and being lucky that the housing market was just starting to rise ,my husband( who was born with no hand,) worked valleting cars and i doing odd part time jobs as i had babies to take care of We,tiook on a very run down semi.We were lucky,there was work in our area.This north south divide is nonsence.The folk in the east and west have it hard,because often as the houses are cheaper, those with a little more move in so pushing up prices for the locals.This is why money should be spent on areas all across the country creating jobs and local transport, connecting cities not just a fast train sailing past most of them. Now that i am older i have been around Britain and also watched the programes about millionares going to live for a week in different areas .There are areas in london where the cost of living is very high it is hard for those on low wages to cope. so enough of it helping fix the north south divide as far as i can see there is nothing that Hs2 can fix as it doesnt help Norfolk and Wles so why should they pay fpor it.

6. Very gullable Morris! Many people like myself don’t have back yards. It’s going straight through my living room!

7. No u turn here. Dictatorial or democratic?
   Yesterday our Prime minister talking in Birmingham said ‘Opponents campaigning against a planned high speed rail line between London and Birmingham will not be allowed to block the scheme…The Government is committed to HS2’
   So what was the DfT consultation response form all about that was prefaced “The Government is interested in whether or not you agree with its proposals and why, as well as any additional evidence that you feel it should consider in reaching its final decisions”.
   After months of encouraging the tens of thousands of people, friends, neighbours, visitors, to take the trouble to fill in the Consultation response form , a feat in itself, to read that his mind is already made up was a real slap in the face.
   I thought the term ‘sofa cabinet’ went out with Blair.
   What price democracy. Shame on him.
   Has the penny not dropped yet Penny? The consultative response form is not the answer. CAmeron has just admitted it.

   • If David Cameron has made up his mind, we need to get him to change it.

     Part of the way of doing that is for as many people as possible to take part in the consultation, to say what a bad idea HS2 is. Not responding plays into the hands of people like David Cameron and Philip Hammond: if they get tens of thousands of responses saying “don’t build HS2” they will have a hard job explaining why they ignored what people say.

     • Why would it be a hard job explaining to tens of thousands?? Considering his party actually got 11 miilon votes at the last election ? And the population of the UK is 60 million 1/3 rd of which live within 20 minutes of the proposed stops on the HS2 route ? And the project has cross party support. With no public inquiry looking likely, the best chance would be the TSC report to Government later on this year……..and judging by the quality of the arguments and the ease which the pro campaign has poked holes in them, I cant really see a case not to push on with it. Dont foget that the Channel Tunnel had a lot more political heavyweights against it……and it still got built, and has been proven to produce economic benefits for the UK. The project also has Euro backing….

       You will also be aware of the fact that the UK population is growing at the rate of 1/2 million per year…..doesnt take rocket science to realise that UK infrastructure has to keep up with that.

       • Cross-party support, as in the Conservatives and the Lib Dems.
         Labour have no policies, we’ll have to what till they have their conference to know what they think, but I remember Miliband saying that the policy review will start with a blank piece of paper, and that HS2 if not on that piece.
         The shadow transport secretary isn’t keen on it either http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-transport-news/2011/02/06/labour-threatens-to-withdraw-its-support-for-high-speed-rail-65233-28125477/
         http://www.hs2actionalliance.org/index.php/news/press-releases-new/144-labour-opposition-to-wasteful-high-speed-rail-plans
         The Greens don’t support it; I don’t suppose UKIP do either.
         So the “cross-party support” comes from the 2 parties that make up the government.

     • Does anyone know If the consultation is covered by a code of practice or legal obligations please?

     • If David Cameron has made up his mind, we need to get him to change it.

       Yep, that’ll happen.

       Let’s consider the scenario. It is beyond dispute that we are seeing a major shift twoards high speed rail by many of the worlds leading (and not so leading) economies. Whether you’re happy about it or not, the British Government has stated, unequivocally, it’s belief in HSR, and has produced studies, figures, and a roadshow to demonstrate it’s commitment to the scheme, and the PM has recently publicly reaffirmed his personal commitment to it. And then they change their minds and renounce it all, because they’ve listened to some people who live along the proposed route.

       And what sort of message about the UK as a place to do business, will this send out to the rest of the world exactly? That any investment here is a risk because if any construction has to take place, it is likely to be rejected because some locals will object? If anyone wants to build a factory to manufacture goods and employ people, the government is likely to approve it but will then cave it the moment some people who live nearby start waving placards?

       The UK will lose any shred of credibility it has left if HS2 does not now go ahead, given the government’s demonstration of it’s benefits, and the investments other countries are making in HSR. You people should accept this and channel your efforts into ensuring that compensation is paid where it is due.

       • We’ll deal with compensation if it becomes relevant but until then we’ll concentrate on getting Mr Cameron to see sense and resolve the capacity problem in a timely and value for money way.

     • I think you are so wrong now Penny.
       1/ You will never achieve more in the next four weeks than you have achieved in the last 16 months.
       2/ As I keep trying to explain to you the Consultation Response Form is just that, It seeks information that’s all, it is not legally binding and offers no guarantee that it will be acted upon, and remember, it is run and managed by HS2 Ltd.!
       3/ 60,000,is only the size of a town like Aylesbury and a signed response of that magnitude, if you were ever able to ascertain the numbers, pales into insignificance when compared to the theoretical needs of a population of 60 million.
       4/ From the way it was presented I always thought it was issued to pay lip service to the minority it would adversely affect, and would end up with that classic phrase, “I hear what you say….”
       Now our Prime Minister has admitted it, why bother trying to put more time and effort into generating a few more replies.
       The only way to prevent this expense lies through building the Petition. If both the Leader and the PM state that given 100,000 petition there will be a debate in the House then that is what we must achieve in the short term. I still await a reply to my letter this week to John Bercow, requesting explanation of the procedures involved.
       The time has come for a radical rethink and shake up of our campaign after our Prime Minister’s comments in Birmingham yesterday.
       ‘Opponents campaigning against a planned high speed rail line between London and Birmingham will not be allowed to block the scheme’ he said. ‘The Government is committed to HS2’
       I thought the term ‘sofa cabinet ‘went out with Blair. So much for democracy.
       You are right about getting Mr. Cameron to change his mind. Fear of a vote of no confidence in him and his Government. This coalition is in a very unstable state at the moment with a lot of discontent on all sides.
       I don’t think many of you realise just what a hugely emotive and personally sensitive issue this is on so many fronts. With few exceptions, we all know someone on a waiting list waiting to go into hospital for examination or operation, old people concerned about care in the twilight of their lives, or parents worried about the cost of the education of their children, to name but a few.
       So, During the summer recess every single MP is targeted by some of his/her constituents requesting a public meeting and invited publically to make a choice of how £2 billion a year for at least 20 years, and earmarked for building of HS2 should be spent. Who are the MPs going to put first, the people who voted for them and are now suffering because of severe cutbacks in the government financing of their local communities? Or the undemocratic demands of their leaders that will have very little, if any, economic or financial benefit to their area?
       This is the source we have to tap
       The campaign has to be coordinated at a national level by an organisation with the information resources to carry it out. TPA? The second line of attack is through general public organisations.
       I cannot believe that with the dozens of WI groups along the corridor alone, none have got together and approached their leaders for support. A very powerful voice in our society it is in our interests to cosset.
       Even more potent, the power of the Unions. Along the proposed corridor there must be past and present members of some Unions that could be canvassed for support.
       To this end I am writing to TPA and AGAHST and out of sheer frustration giving out an email address on here in order that those who consider we have to change track to succeed can get together and plan some form of united coordinated strategy. The Taxpayers Alliance should have a list of all MPs and their constituencies. I would hope that they would be able to break down their members into areas if not individual constituencies.
       Whatever else, we have to concentrate on our objective and get away from the distractions that are allowed to be written on this site that have nothing to do with the campaign. We can win this we just have to be focused, organised, and coordinated.
       If you have any constructive comments to make please contact me on the following temporary e-mail address.
       thefatcontroller@live.co.uk

       • Bloody hell just what is John Williams on ??!!!!! I ll suggest something different which is a bit more practical and easy to do.

         Target George Osbourne ( the Chancellor ). His constituency which isnt far from me is almost certain to be on the route. And of course George holds the purse strings……it is often said that when new proposals are put up which might be a tad controversial, never involve the treasury !!!!!

         • Anything worth fighting for is not easy Gary, and I will be damned before I stop trying to prevent this spending of public money that we haven’t got on something the majority of us don’t need just so a part time student like yourself who thinks if he buys a bowler hat and rolled up umbrella, he will be able to ride down to London in style and have the pick of any job he fancies.
           Let us get on with the job in hand Gary there’s a good boy, come back when your studies are over.
           In the meantime those with a wish to further our campaign can contact me on the following temporary email address
           thefatcontroller@live.co.uk

   • JW – well done for getting all your contacts, friends and family to respond to the consultation – so you did do it after all.

     I know I’ve said this before, but it is so important I shall repeat it again. Respond to the Consultation. The more the better. Mr Hammond and Mr Cameron have asked for our opinion on their hare-brained project. So give it to them. Clearly and forcefully. If you think the outcome is dubious, let your MP know, he’s there to act on your behalf. If enough MPs have to take up the cudgels for their constituents over any, God forbid, “shenanigans” I think our leaders would have to respond. In fact my MP wants to be sent a copy of his constitutents’ responses so he can use them as evidence of the strength of feeling.

     I think that Cameron’s overt support for HS2 does diminish him as a person of reliability and credibility. Although I am not surprised, if as I have been told, he has cherished a dream of an HS2 style train since he was but a lad of 8. Used to be most boys wanted to be an engine driver when they grew up, but with age and wisdom they could make other choices. Pity Mr Cameron hasn’t got over his boyhood fancy. The PM wants a train set.

     • Sorry, meant to conclude last comment with “Let’s not let him have this one”!

     • firstly let me point out that in general i am not a supporter of the tory party. however i think it slightly comical to say that cameron has a lack of reliability and credibility because he supports a project he believes in just because you don’t agree with him !

       in my opinion going against what he and others believe because of a relatively small but vocal minority is the definition of lack of reliability and credibility.

       and to say that he wants to play with trains shows how little hs2 critics understand of the positive benefits of high speed rail in reducing overcrowding and journey times whilst reducing motorway traffic not to mention the wider benefits such as job creation and regeneration, starting with the area around curson street and also old oak common. there is much evidence to support these potential benefits.

       yes there are negatives and downsides such as loss of a small slice of countryside 22 metres wide and the regrettable loss of properties or encroachment on others.

       the problem is that wishing hs2 away doesnt do anything to resolve current and future transport issues. something will need doing and you cant do that something without affecting somebody adversely. all reports on future travel are predicting large future increases and this will have to be accomodated somehow. you could end up with widening the m40 or dualling some roads through the chilterns – who knows.

     • I must protest.

       Is “lelliO” a nom de plume for Jeremy Clarkson?

       This sort of spiteful and childish abuse does nothing to advance your cause.

       Or is it Open Season on Philip Hammond and his Government colleagues? You really cannot expect to change the minds of Ministers and engage them in effective dialogue to change a general policy for a major transport link which has been promoted by both this administration and the last, merely by insulting the in such a petty and unworthy way. It may just strengthen their resolve.

       Or are you seeking another General Election?

       We are affronted by the sight of a howling, baying mob of rival football “fans”or rioters on the streets of East Belfast. I must say that I felt a similar reaction when Mr. Hammond visited Brackley last year. If that was Brackley’s notion of reasoned response, then, whatever doubts and concerns I might have had about the scheme, I felt alienated by the crowd of screaming protesters and was left with a greater sympathy for the Minister.

       The video , still available on this site, of Mr. Hammond’s visit to Buckingham only confirms this feeling, what with all the giggling commentery, the silly hats and the silly dog and the attempt to “ticket” his car! All very jolly ,but is this the way to change minds? It can all too easily become counter productive.

       If you really feel that this scheme “will destroy the Chilterns” and will mean “the loss of all we hold dear”, then perhaps a dignified silent protest, mourning the impending loss, would have shown the genuine strength of feeling and carried much more weight with those who watched the television report.

   • I’m not surprised that Mr Cameron said this. He’s implementing policy which is explicitly stated in the coalition agreement. But there’s a long way to go before any construction starts and a lot can happen between now and then. Most likely, and it’s not good news, is that the price of fuel, utilities and food will keep rising and the economic recovery, in the form of return to economic growth, will not happen.

     We’re already seeing pay cuts, job losses, and cutbacks in public services. The government continues to spend more every day than it receives in revenues. Our national debt is increasing by £350m per day. When we get to 2017 and the country is even more in debt and the government has to make even more ‘hard choices’, HS2 will be an unaffordable pipe dream, whoever is prime minister.

     We have come to expect grandiose government schemes to go massively over budget and, like the Nimrods, ultimately be cancelled to stop throwing good money after bad. The ‘bad’ money is being thrown into HS2 now, and this is an irresponsible waste of money that we don’t have by a government that pledged to ‘cut out wasteful public spending’.

8. Does that mean in five week we can start to build it. I hope so

   • No because the consultation process is still on going until at least the end of this year and even if it is built the thing won’t open until much of today’s workforce are considering retirement. Perhaps if you stopped and thought rather than being so desperate for this horrific waste of public money to be built you might realise why this scheme needs to be cancelled immediately.

     Your lack of knowledge about the consultation and planning process clearly shows your lack of research and knowledge about the project. I would encourage you to read a few of the articles on this site.

     • Frist may i point out to you that HS2 is not a horrific waste of public money. The waste of money is the consultation process or the money we have to pay out to the people in the big homes that will have the there gardens mested up. Is that you Richard

       • Morris you seem to have been very gullable to have been taken in by such nonsense about all those along the hs2 line drawn across the map.Have you seen how those poor folk in north warwickshire will have their communities destroyed.Yes some protesters do have larger homes and have probably worked hard for them .What sort of homes do you think the busness men that want to make money from the taxpayers by building hs2 live in ,Not council flats thats for sure.There are i believe five of those in london that would be destroyed where do you imagine they will be rehoused not anywhere near to where they live and probably work now, i dont suppose.I live in a modest semi ,the small town i live in is mostly made up of them.Do not be brainwashed by what the government wants you to believe research and find the truth for yourself please.

         • Elaine – I live in the midlands and work most of my time in London, and too live ina modest semi. But unlike you i believe in HS2. The poor folk in warwickshire are you trying to be funny? When i drive to london have you seen the signs in the very small garden – NOT. We are going to have to pay thro the nose to get them rehoused and that willnot be the price they paid fot it but a lot more. Again are you trying to be funny?

           • HS2 has to be proven to be in the national interest and until it is the opposition will grow

       • Morris I don’t know why you seem to think Warwickshire gardens cover the entire county? It just shows how much you have been brainwashed by your vision of the “rich/poor divide”. The majority of homes in rural towns are not much more expensive than those in the city. Most of the “lawns” the Yes campaign accuses everyone in the countryside of having is precious farmland that must be protected for everyone’s benefit – I suppose you will now suggest that the average Warwickshire farmer is an extremely wealthy person.

         Why do people suggest the line will break the north/south divide and then accuse everyone who doesn’t live in Birmingham of having a massive garden?

         • RichardC- Please have a look at the RICS web site for house prices for the West Midalnds and Warwickshire. This will show you how wrong you are. Brainwashed is this the only way you can say that I agree with HS2 or is it that you agree with it but again not in my back yard and can only say that im brainwashed?

           Have you seen a poor farmer or is that just on country file or some other TV programme. HS2 by it self will not inprove the North/south drive but will help. When was the last time you went north and that past watford gap services or do you not move out of your piture little post card rural towns and do a days work in a city

           • Yes I have been north of Watford Gap and yes I have seen poor farmers. I don’t need to watch countryfile to see what life is like in the countryside and I can tell you most of it is not like that at all. It seems to me that you are basing your opinion on what you see on TV. If you go to a deprived area of the country (and they are not just in “the north”) where people are unable to afford school uniforms for their kids tell me how building this at a cost of £33 billion will help?

           • RichardC- im not as basing as you, for calling me brainwashed, yes its my option that HS2 is required. I too live im a small rural towns but I have never seen a poor farmer please can you tell me where you have? Again what has school unifoms got to do with HS2? But unlike you I live by the WCML so I know how little real noise a train passing makes, as my lawn backs onto the railway.

             You say that precious farmland must be protected for everyone’s benefit but the rail line is just a 90m approx strip of land through any fieild. I see that you have Shut up over the house prices did you look at the RICS web site and see how wrong you are.

         • It seems the north/south rich/poor divide is somewhat cultural and to do with attitudes, it will always exist as long as bitterness and resentment exist.
           I have seen much evidence that HS2 is making the divide worse.
           Stereotyping people who are anti-HS2, calling them names like nimby, isn’t part of a grown-up debate, and it isn’t helping heal the divide.
           Just ignore people who are like this, you’ll only encourage them

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