HS2 Consultation roadshows – 13th June to 18th June

1. Gary considering our history at predicting costs like the olympic stadium at £282 million which will turn out more like £550 million, and this is a simple stadium in comparison with a complex railway line. I think you can kiss good bye to £34 billion which is based on 2009 prices and say hello to more like £90-100 billion.

2. How many have been organised to travel to Manchester to the UNISON Conference to bring the overall cost of HS2 to the National Delegates attention next week?

3. On the BBC News website yesterday Transport Secretary Philip Hammond said: “This is a nationwide consultation and people across the country are joining in and making their views known about what will be a major investment in Britain’s future economic competitiveness.’

   If this correct why are the roadshows not going beyond Birmingham and what are HS2/DfT doing to make the nation aware of this
   proposal

   • John ….at this moment in time. where would you propose having roadshows north of Birmingham if the route detail has yet to be finalised, which is actually in HS2s remit to complete next year? Surely the maximum benefit form a roadshow would be to have them where the most likely physical impact of a mega piece of engineering would happen. What would be the point of a roadshow in the foyer of a Tesco store in Aberdeen for example?

     • Its for Mr Hammond to decide how to deliver a national consultation

   • They notified people 1km from proposed line by post. I have raised the fact with HS2 Roadshow a 1km strip is hardly a ‘national’ consultation. They say they have advertised the consultation in the odd broadsheet. I don’t know any one who has seen one. They didn’t know if it had been advertised in any red tops, but they have advertised roadshows in relavent local rags.

     No wonder it is not a ‘national’ debate but still primarily a local issue.
     They also said there have been articles in various broadsheets and magazines. I did point out the latter are not official notifications.

     • Eros …..I ve manged to fill in the questionaire…..and I m not local to the route. How many have actually attended the roadshows so far? And of those that have attended , how may were from areas outside of that 1 km boundary?

       • That’s a question you should be asking HS2Ltd/DfT as a supporter of the project. Its their road shows after all, and you are working hard on their behalf to put their case. You do seem to be working harder on the case than they are, according to the above blogs.

       • Gary, I have no idea and my mathmatical imagination is not as innovative as the DfTs. Unlike them I wouldn’t care to make the numbers up.
         Perhaps you should ask HS2 Ltd. but they don’t record everyone turning up or where they come from, or for sure Mr Hammond could come up more elasticated stats .he’s had plenty of practice over the last year or so.

4. I notice that HS2 Ltd made a “Tweet” at 9:30 today (Monday 13th June) that the HS2 roadshow is at the Holiday Inn in Kenilworth today and tomorrow. Perhaps it escaped their notice that the Holiday Inn decided several weeks ago not to host this roadshow. It was therefore moved to Abbey Fields, Kenilworth. Does this give you a great deal of confidence in HS2 Ltd?

5. HS2 did not take part in last evenings BBC Coventry & Warwickshire radio debate nor did anybody from Dft–I thought we paid them

   • John…..can you find out if anyone from the dft/HS2 was actually invited to the debate? If so , can you find out why they declined? I will personally write to them myself to complain if you can prove that an offer was extended and declined for no good reason.

     Can you find out by 9am tomorrow morning …tia

     • The presenter said they were but they declined

       • Ok ….who was invited ? And why did they decline ?

     • Gary, you can listen to the debate on i-player, Coventry and Warwickshire radio, bbc. Perhaps you could, er, ask them yourself?

       • Lel ….I have offered to complain on stopHS2s behalf, but I havent any info as of yet to form a letter. I am not familiar with Coventry/Warwickshire radio, so could do with a little help here…….

         • here’s a link Gary

           http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00hfvlb/Shane_OConnor_The_HS2_debate/

           • I ve just listened to that debate on I player…..good stuff, and yes HS2 themselves should have sent someone considering they are in a hotel across the way ( allegedly ).

             What struck me in listening to that debate was this…….the quality of the questions from the floor was poor. Considering the centre was filled with almost everyone who was against this proposal , I found it quite staggering. In fact it just mirrors what I have said to you guys previously, you dont appear to have a grasp on how this fits in the bigger picture. I found it very easy to pull you apart ( in cyberspace of course ), and I m not being big headed when I say that, rather just pointing out a very salient fact.

             A point made in the debate ( and I concur with this ) is that the idea of a new rail line North to South has been around for a long time…..I actually attended a Network Rail presentation ( by chance ) over 2 years ago, where the likes of Ian Coucher and Robin Gisby were on stage presenting a ” state of the network ” show. Some of this presentation ( about 10 minutes ) was dedicated to High Speed Rail, but at the time there was no detail of the route. How come if you guys are so against this , has your opposition only materialised in the last 12 month or so when actual details have been announced ?. Have you all suddenly become rail economic experts?

           • Gary, one thing that was evident that hs2 are not doing enough to explain their case. Having them in a hotel
             opposite (allegedly…) because they can’t be bothered dosn’t help.
             I mean the facts why they think its needed. If there are so many For Hs2 (as you have claimed in the past) then where were they? If it is so easy to pull the argument apart then why wasn’t this evident in the debate? Im sure the BBC would of made sure that the debate was balanced. Maybe they should give you a call!

           • Stuart ….what facts do you need ?

           • Don’t need any facts Gary, I get all I need from this site! …and your good self of course.

           • Amazing what you can learn from someone who is more clued in eh Stuart??

             Anyway here are the facts

             1 – We need a new rail line North to South as we are running out of capacity to accomodate growth.
             2 – Rail travel is a well known green form of transport.
             3 – The current planned route ( by no means absolute certain ) has come about after a good number ( around a dozen or so ) were looked at and rejected for a variety of reasons.
             4 – Capacity released on the exisitng network will be used to enhance both local passenger services, and freight traffic.
             5 – The proposed 3rd runway at Heathrow has been scrapped.
             6 – The cost of the complete HS2 scheme is as at today £33bn. This is spread over 20 or so years, and equates to 2p for every £100 of government spend per year. Public money is also being used to enhance the current rail network ( eg Crossrail , Thameslink and Northern Hub ). Some private investment has also been attacted to the rail industry for enhancement purposes ( eg Chiltern Railways Evergreen Project.)
             7 – The proposed new line is going to cut a slice through the countryside from London to Birmingham, and then later from Birmingham to Manchester and Leeds. Visual effects will be mitigated where possible , as will potential financial loss for homewowners etc..

           • One thing that always gets mentioned is capacity. Im no rail expert, but just how expensive would it be to increase
             the loading gauge on existing lines?- Its not a leading question, I’m just curious as to how practical it would be to modify tunnels etc. Could we then improve capacity with double decker carriages etc?

           • Isn’t that one of the things in the RP2 alternative?

           • Stuart……to improve the gauge to accomadate double decker trains would mean rippping up the entire network and re laying it both lower and wider. Dont forget our network is the oldest in the world.

             Now seems like a suitable time to point out something that you probably wont be aware of. Network Rail last week announced their financial results…they have made a decent profit ( which comes in the main from track access charges to the train operators). When you look at the results in some detail, you notice that the book value of our cuurent rail network is around £35 billion….ie that is what the network is currently valued at. This is actually what HS2 will be valued at in 20 years time. The replacement cost ( excluding tunnels and cuttings etc ) of the current network is in the order of £75 BILLION.

             So in a nutshell, we have a current network valued at the same as HS2 , and its returning a profit……profit which doesnt go to shareholders….as there are none except for …..Her Majestys Government. Of course , this is profit from the physical asset only, the profit ( or loss ) from running the trains falls on the operators. One of those opreators is East Coast Trains……who are owned by……Her Majestys Government.

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