Is this the Y route?

Today’s Sunday Telegraph has published the possible route of the second phase of HS2 beyond Birmingham.

It was produced for Agahst, Action Groups Against High Speed Two.

The route was based on the following criteria:

  • the need for straight lines, dictated by the design speed of 400 kph
  • prevailing terrain
  • statements and other material published by HS2 Ltd and the Department for Transport

There has been much speculation about the location of possible stations.

However, on numerous occasions, HS2 Ltd and the Department for Transport have made it clear that there will be at most one or two more stations on the entire network to Scotland.

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43 comments on “Is this the Y route?
  1. the bejing to shanghai railway is due to open soon after being plagued with problems.built to tavel at 240mph it has had 50mph cut from that due to safety concerns.They could be building trains for britain!!!!!! the minister was sacked after alligations of taking £75m in bribes.

    • that could happen with anything though couldnt it like a road or an airport or a building. you can always be negative and say oh something could go wrong or someone might be dishonest. what if it were broadband that had cost too much in china and there had been an an alleged bribe. would you recommend stopping any further broadband ?

  2. this article is pure speculation and as it was produced for an anti hs2 group by so called rail experts (can they be named ?) isnt likely to be any less unbiased then we are led by stophs2 to believe hs2 ltd/dft are .

    i totally support the general public being given as much information as possible because if the balanced facts of hs2 were allowed to be heard, instead of the wild exaggeration, myths and half truths put about by many hs2 critics, most would probably agree with hs2.

    it is shameful that we also have such a negative press on almost all issues including hs2. given a choice between reporting all who are in favour of hs2 and using rational facts, we instead get all the old stories rehashed promising destruction of the entire countryside, nuclear power stations in the chilterns, armegeddon, concrete bombs and the alleged dangers of electric railways. bring on the debate lets get all the facts and both sides of the story out.

    as far as cheryl gillan is concerned she must represent the majority of her constituents but it isnt clear if this is the case or not – that it is in fact a very vocal minority who also just happen to contribute to the tory party. she also is the welsh secretary so presumably should be representing wales also. maybe she should also be lobbying for electrification of cardiff valley lines and cardiff swansea as well as opposing hs2.

    • More shameful is the habit of Stop HS2 showing up with stands at kids school summer fayres and thinking there’s nothing wrong with that.

      Vile people, no other word for them.

      • Thats a bit harsh? I suppose the kids that go to the Hillingdon activity centre in Denham might have something to say. The lake will be drained and the Route goes right over it, It will close if it goes ahead. But thats ok, when they grow up they will be able to shop in Birmingham in under an hour.

        • There seems to be some local confusion here. The various lakes – former gravel pits- in and around the Colne Valley and flanking the Grand Union Canal, would surely be reinstated after construction of any viaducts to carry HS2.

          These post industrial sites have been adapted and landscaped for recreational use and can be so restored as part of the landscaping of the scheme, whether or not the construction involves partialtemporary draining inorder to build the supports, or else employs a series of “cofferdams”.

          A local activist in the campaign obviously anticipates the lakes remaining, as she was quoted in in one of the splendidly objective(!!!) local papers as expressing fears about unrestricted access by boat or by water skis to the lakes -as it would pose a risk of vandalism (and terrorist attack?) on the piers of the viaduct.

          (You can imagine the headline in the Uxbridge Gazette-
          “SUSPECTED SOMALI PIRATE THREAT To Harefield rail link..”)

            • @stuartf: Hs2? Im sure it could!

              Freudian slip on your part @stuartf?

              I’m sure you’d be delighted if HS2 was moved somewhere else – problem solved for you (by dumping it in someone else’s backyard!)

            • Well its not in my back yard as is, but moving hs2 into the nearest bin would be a good start.

            • @stuartf

              Good try but you’re not fooling anyone

              In reality you’re not really too bothered about HS2 per se, just as long as it’s nowhere near you!

            • Ah, the NIMBY argument. As is ‘not in my backyard’. Here are the facts regarding how it affects me. My house is
              about a mile from the line. You can find the area on map 6. The line tunnels under old Amersham then progresses mostly into deep cutting and then a bit of green bridge. As far as I am concerned this will have NO impact to my house. I wont see it or hear it. Providing existing footpaths are re-instated and there is not a great big airvent in the middle of the A413 – I don’t have any problem with the route. It wont be no more intrusive than the nearby bypass.
              However, in areas where I do not live, there will be a huge impact. Denham, Ruislip, Perivale….. I don’t live there
              but I know folks who are and it is having a huge impact on the area. And it does bother me. How far along the line do I have to go before I don’t count as being a Nimby?

      • Ian …that is a bit harsh, they are protesting at the fact that a new rail line is cutting right through the countryside near where they live. Its a natural reaction for some , it cannot be denied. In fact we have the same here where I live, which is less than 50 yards away from a brand new light rail station as part of Manchesters Metrolink expansion. This is a fantastic idea, but it has got the backs up of some local residents who have found out that they will no longer be able to park their cars right outside their homes on the main road – which the tram link is being built on.

        Our local sandwich/bakers shop owner actually organised a petiton about this, but when questioned about how much business she had been getting from the workforce employed to construct the line and stations, was unable to give an answer.

        • Sorry, but I find it utterly disgusting for people to lose the plot so far that they behave in this way. Is there anything they will stop at? I suspect not.

          Maybe I should have put my point less aggressively, but I would hope that the more reasoned people with concerns over HS2 would see that attending school summer fayres and using children as part of a political argument is distasteful to say the very least.

          • Indeed Ian ….stopHS2 didnt exactly cover themsleves in glory when they put up a you tube video of 2 young girls ( which appears to have been removed now?). When I looked at the number of hits on it, it had totalled….er….3000 or so, which I suspect a good number of was actually school mates and family of the youngsters.

            HS2 themselves havent been blame free either……a consultant employed at the roadshows by HS2 has been sacked after calling one of the stopHS2 campaigners a ” cretin “. This was caught on video and posted on you tube as well. It all stemmed from an apparent ban on taking photos……I myself simply cannot see why photos should be banned, it must have occurred to the organisers of roadshows that with the advent of cameras in mobile phones, how on earth are you going to enforce that ??? if we can see Saddam Hussein ( and I suspect at some point Bin Laden ) meet their demise via technology, you certainly aint going to stop someone getting away with taking a snap of a tent !!!

            • Indeed Lel …..and when you look at the FAQs on that site , below is the very first one…

              Why did you want to stop the HS2?

              “We wanted to stop the HS2 because we all found out that it would affect facilities, countryside, money, wildlife and houses, all badly, and that the only good things were that it reduces journey time by around 20-30 minutes, and that it would reduce a few cars on the road.”

              Which , in all honesty , is what a NIMBY would say……..

            • Oh come now Gary, I didn’t expect you to stoop so low. They’ve articulated AS BEST THEY CAN without adult vocabulary what they think of HS2 – surely you can’t just damn them like that? I really thought you were more even handed than that. Are you going to go on their site and repeat your opinion to them?

            • Stoop so low……hmm thats interesting. Of course I wouldnt expect kids to be fully aware of the implications of what is proposed from the wider economic basis, I almost certain that they wouldnt be aware of Network Rails results from last week which has an asset base of similar value to HS2. So of course any argument presented is going to be from a very narrow viewpoint. And of course anyone under the age of 18 isnt actually allowed to vote

            • I agree 100% with Ian, and what a strange bunch of children. Apparently left to their own devices to consider the pros & cons of HS2, they’re concerned about of all things, house prices:

              People are also having trouble trying to sell their houses, if their house will be affected by The HS2. This is because no matter how nice or how expensive the house is, people looking for a new house would generally not buy the house, because of the noise of 28 trains every hour, or because the house will be destroyed because of the HS2.

              Well I suppose at least those kids are honest enough to state the true reason behind this campaign. Makes a change. Oh hang on, the people that actually wrote all this have left their signature at the bottom of the page:

              YOU CAN HELP STOP HS2 BY VISITING http://www.stophs2.org NOW!

              http://stopthehs2.yolasite.com/whats-affected-by-hs2.php

            • A further look at this website ( pardon me for being a bit cynical ) reveals something else….on the ABOUT US page, it states that……… “Although our organization currently only has 4 people, we are still doing our bit against HS2, and concentrate on getting as many online petition entries against the HS2 as we can, not hiring more people.

              We are unique because we are the only stop HS2 campaign run by primary school children in both Buckinghamshire and Hertfordshire. We even have a manager and a founder/owner, and our manager does so many things that we’re not sure what we’d do without him! ”

              So 4 schoolkids of PRIMARY school age have by their own free will set up a stopHS2 website. One assumes that the manager is an adult…..in the ” contact us ” section , he actually gives out his e mail address. Now of course no rational parent would allow a child to give out an e mail address in the public domain for the obvious reason.

              So lets assume that the content has been composed by an adult…and lets have a look at the icon which states “Comparing HS1 to HS2″ …….Oh dear oh dear oh dear…….what do we find……a comparison between HS2 and the current WCML!!!!!!!!!. Rather than send an e mail to the manager ( its fair to assume that he will be reading this blog ) and point out the error, lets just send another e mail and ask the kids…..” What do they think of the fact that you can catch a train in London at St Pancras, travel down HS1 through the tunnel, and be at Eurodisney in 2 hours, which was something you couldnt do prior to a high speed rail line being built?”

              Lel….it was you who highlighted this site…..but in actual fact you have done a very good job of showing why the public in general ignore protest groups.

            • Gary, don’t “assume” that the founder/manager is an adult – he isn’t he’s a schoolboy and his protest has grown into their website. Primary school doesn’t mean they are little children either – there are very computer literate 11/12yr olds out there. Just because these youngsters have decided they are against HS2 for reasons primarily compatible with their age does not in any way detract from the reason this blog was started – by somebody out there calling protestors of HS2 who he felt were manipulating school children “vile”. My posting was intended to show that there are youngsters out there who do not/are not being manipulated. We all have the right to free speech, even school kids.

    • Except its impossible for a child to be a ‘Nimby’ because they can’t own property…..so I suppose its more a case of
      not in my Mums/Dads/Grans/Grandads etc….

  3. Are you really trying to help stop HS2?

    What on earth are you talking about, “It would be great to think that there is an enormous army of anti HS2 protestors who have the time and wherewithal to travel at their own expense up and down the country addressing thousands of WIs, student unions, factories, workplaces, colleges, hospitals, dentists, opticians, retail outlets about the cost of Hs2 to each and every one of them”

    Have you forgotten 51M group, a group of local authorities from Hillingdon to Warwickshire affected by HS2 who have committed time, resources and finance to fight against the proposals?
    Or AGAHST, a federation formed of over 60 action groups based in areas from London to the Midlands, to oppose HS2? The federation has acquired the services of PR experts, whose work is mainly behind the scenes, but the impact can be seen in the national press. They also have contact with MPs and major organisations such as the Taxpayers’ Alliance.

    Please don’t exaggerate the difficulty of the problem, a couple of dozen volunteers in some of the larger shopping malls, and again in the main line stations are adequate. As far as the unions are concerned you need only contact the secretaries then publish a press release that they are being canvassed for support.
    It is no wonder we are failing so badly with the petition with defeatist attitude such as we read on here. Our prime objective at the moment is to get THE 100,000 PETITION
    There is a very good saying, Either lead or follow but just get out of my way.

    • Surely the most simplest way is to simply put pressure on for a full public inquiry ??? You wouldnt need to canvass anyone in shopping malls or railway stations for that. ?

    • Dave, of course I haven’t forgotten about them – I was specifically referring to us Joe Bloggs’, members of the public, who use this specific site, and who are not members of the Local Authorities or on the committee of Agahst. JM directs his comments to them via this site, and by inference to us. I was pointing out that it takes an awful lot of manpower to do what he suggests, when there are other ways of skinning the cat without doorstepping.

      The most crucial thing at the moment to concentrate on is getting those who are against hs2 to complete the consultation document. You can address as many people on their doorsteps as you care to, and convince them of the rightness of your argument. But unless that document is filled in AND SENT, all our efforts will be in vain. My personal focus is dedicating my time to ensure that that happens.

      Please do not question my commitment because I chose my way to rally the troops.

  4. Have the people who set up and run this site completely lost touch with its purpose? One of its two key objectives,
    To facilitiate local and national campaiging against High Speed Two (the site spelling, not mine)
    Yet by far the majority of postings on here have nothing to do with our objective and only serve to disrupt and interrupt constructive discourse between those of us who believe that this nation as a whole would not want, if they knew, this huge expenditure at this point in time. I only wanted to know how many signatures we have collected because both Prime Minister and the Speaker of the House have stated that there will be a full public debate if they are presented with a petition in excess of 100,000 signatures.
    Anything that detracts from trying to rectify what David Lidington stated a few days ago is irrelevant and should not be allowed, and failure to do so must be looked upon as failure in leadership.
    Have the big shopping Malls nationwide they been visited seeking petitioners? What about the unions? BMA, CWU, NUT, NFU, RMT, Prison Service, Royal College of Nursing, UNISON and USDAW as a few but powerful examples. Would they approach their members for their views? Don’t ignore the influence of the WI?
    I won’t mention The Students Union., and the riots that might occur if they thought that money was being used at the expense of their recently introduced £9,000 a year university education
    Can it be true that after all the time effort and money we only have 42,000 signatures?
    Like it or not it is time for some answers. NOW . Too many volunteers have worked too hard campaigning for many months to be left in the dark about the success or failure of their efforts so far.

    • Excellent ideas John but are you active in trying to expedite some of your suggestions?

      • Agree with Simon…

        John ….. you suggest approaching the Unions…….do you honestly think that the RMT are going to sign a petition against HS2? Bearing in mind that the number of trains planned will need drivers? Conductors ? Staffed control centres? Maintainance staff? A project which also increases capacity on the classic network…..which again involves more services?

      • Yep, offered on here to take teams to the 4 main line stations if you read my blogs, offered to take Gary and his sidekick Rich together with a TV News camera crew onto any council estate of their choice just for them to find out if Joe Public wants this expenditure over their other needs, But you notice both ignore the offer. What some people call all mouth and no trousers. The only ally he assumes will back his thesis is RMT with 80,000 members. Well that submerges all the other unions put together doesn’t it? But don’t put them up against the WI, with 207,000 let alone the TUC with 1,500,000
        What is important, is that we be made aware of just how far we are to achieving our goal, I naively assumed the various organisations that are supposedly working on our behalf have already sought what could be huge support, if so, all I ask is that we be informed of what indications of support has been received, and if not why not?

        There is so much we could learn from David Babbs http://38degrees.org.uk
        He ran the FOREST campaign and is now seeking to change the government’s stance on the NHS
        I quote after 3 months of his campaigning
        “It’s not surprising we’ve had a big impact; here are some of the highlights of what we’ve done together so far:
        – 420,000 signatures (and rising!) on the biggest ever petition about the NHS
        – members delivering the petition to key decision makers, including Nick Clegg and the Department of Health
        – organised over 100 petition deliveries to MPs across the country, with more to come
        – thousands of us chipping in to raise £90,000 for newspaper adverts which were seen by over five million people, showing health minister Andrew Lansley with his fingers in his ears
        – Tens of thousands of us emailing our MPs, telling them to oppose the dangerous NHS plans.
        – Over 25,000 of us making individual submissions to Lansley’s “listening exercise”, flooding it with our objections.
        That’s an incredible amount of people power – no wonder politicians and the press have started paying attention! “

        • John……Simon asked what you personally had done to further the cause of stopHS2 ….its a question I asked you before , which you failed to answer.

          You seem very vociferous in your criticism of the stopHS2 leadership, but I will remind you that these are people who use their own spare time ( unpaid ) to further a cause that they are passionate about. I ve no doubt you have more spare time yourself, so can I suggest you go and do something more practical rather than spouting nonsense in cyberspace. I ve also no doubt that the likes of Penny , Lelio . Joe and Liz etc .are decent human beings , and dont take kindly to being told that they are not doing enough. I might not agree with their views , but I cant be critical of the time and effort they are putting in.

        • @John Williams

          I know I’ve pointed out the rather ******* obvious to you before but it might just be that the reason why the NHS petition you refer to has 420,000 signatures and rising and your HS2 counterpart is struggling to get much more than 20,000 is simply down to the subject matter in question.

          People (in general) care about the NHS because they can perceive a direct connection between it (the NHS) and them, in so much as they are likely to be availing themselves of its resources sometime during the next few years (perhaps even tomorrow if they are unfortunate enough to have an accident?) but in the case of HS2 it’s somewhere off in the distance and maybe it might be beneficial, maybe not – it’s all a bit too technial (or something like that?)

          In short @JohnWilliams – have you ever considered that you might be flogging a dead horse when it comes to the topic of generating interest in HS2, outside of the relatively tiny audience of people directly impacted by it, due to their very close proximity to the planned line?

          In a way this latter point touches upon the subject of this thread, which is the possibility that desperately trying to generate interest in HS2 outside of said tiny audience could very well be the motivation for speculating on the proposed routes for phase 2 – after all if your campaign against phase 1 is rapidly running out of steam (no pun intended – High Speed Trains are electric!!!) what better way to rejuvanate things by recruiting a new set of campaigners who might just be affected – so produce a map with some vague looking lines on it, accompany said map with some scaremongering headlines and away you go – a whole new set of worried residents thinking the HS2 bogeyman is coming their way- brilliant strategy (at least it is for a few days until everyone realises it complete and utter bunkem – so no change there then?)

          Oh and by the way, I’m on the 38 Degrees mailing list – take it from me – 38 Degrees will never take up HS2 as a worthy cause

      • Yep, offered on here to take teams to the 4 main line stations if you read my blogs, offered to take Gary and his sidekick Rich together with a TV News camera crew onto any council estate of their choice just for them to find out if Joe Public wants this expenditure over their other needs, But you notice both ignore the offer. What some people call all mouth and no trousers. The only ally he assumes will back his thesis is RMT with 80,000 members. Well that submerges all the other unions put together doesn’t it? But don’t put them up against the WI, with 207,000 let alone the TUC with 1,500,000
        What is important, is that we be made aware of just how far we are to achieving our goal, I naively assumed the various organisations that are supposedly working on our behalf have already sought what could be huge support, if so, all I ask is that we be informed of what indications of support has been received, and if not why not?

        There is so much we could learn from David Babbs http://38degrees.org.uk
        He ran the FOREST campaign and is now seeking to change the government’s stance on the NHS
        I quote after 3 months of his campaigning
        “It’s not surprising we’ve had a big impact; here are some of the highlights of what we’ve done together so far:
        – 420,000 signatures (and rising!) on the biggest ever petition about the NHS
        – Members delivering the petition to key decision makers, including Nick Clegg and the Department of Health
        – organised over 100 petition deliveries to MPs across the country, with more to come
        – thousands of us chipping in to raise £90,000 for newspaper adverts which were seen by over five million people, showing health minister Andrew Lansley with his fingers in his ears
        – Tens of thousands of us emailing our MPs, telling them to oppose the dangerous NHS plans.
        – Over 25,000 of us making individual submissions to Lansley’s “listening exercise”, flooding it with our objections.
        That’s an incredible amount of people power – no wonder politicians and the press have started paying attention! “

    • Lets have a look at todays Telegraph article as posted by Penny…..

      Lets be 100% clear on this……..the article is pure speculation as the HS2 team have not yet completed the work on the various options north of Birmingham, and are not due to do so until next year as per their remit. I quote from the paper ….

      “A spokeswoman for the DfT said it was “irresponsible to speculate on the final route for HS2 north of Birmingham” as work was still in progress on various options.”

      Unfortunately , this provides cannon fodder for pro HS2 campaigners, and no doubt their own websites will be filled with derisory comments. Joe yesterday stated that he kind of wondered if HS2 would actually reach Manchester City Centre, yet here we have a map which looks like it does !!! On the surface of it , a route into Manchester faces the same kind of obstacles that the route from Euston does…..ie the potential for a whole load of homes to be demolished. I highlight the word potential because as of yet , we have no detail on the route. However, assuming that the line does come into the centre ( which in all honesty it should ) something interesting happens. A ready made station already exists ……its called Manchester Mayfield. This is actually right next door to Piccadilly. Mayfield station is unused, and had been for a number of years. It was the Parcelforce depot, the associated office block was reached by a bridge right across the throat of Piccadilly……this office block was recently brought back into use by Network Rail themselves, it is the home of their Finance , HR , Regional ICC and various other bells and whistles compromising 800 staff.

      The Mayfield area is nowadays the most run down part of Manchester , but has been the subject of various potential developments, including a transfer of Whitehall staff. Again it speculation on my behalf, but it would certainly be a logical think to do. Note also that just a mile up the line is land owned by LCR, who operate HS1. Currently this has a depot which was intended for use by Eurostar for Manchester to Paris trains, its currently subleased to Northern Rail to store some rolling stock.

      Speculation on my behalf, but dont be suprised if it becomes reality.

      • @Gary

        When it comes to Manchester Mayfield – I predict right here and now that you are absolutely on the money!!!

        I’ve lived and worked in and around Manchester and its environs all my life, using rail as a means of commuting regularly. The Manchester Mayfield site screams future Manchester High Speed International terminus at you.

        If I had the money to speculate on these things, I’d be buying up land around the Mayfield site right now – in fact I wouldn’t be surprised to find that it’s already happened. – interesting task for anybody with the time to interrogate the land registry database?

        • Indeed Peter…..I was only looking at this yesterday with the aid of Google maps, a viaduct parallel to the exisitng one is defo viable at least up to that junction at Slade Lane, though if it were to include an airport parkway station of some sort, then it will be a smart piece of engineering to get it the line to bend right and through the estates in Burnage and Didsbury without impacting on the current airport line. But hey, we will leave that one to HS2 engineers….Mayfield development would be a monster boost to HS2 BCR considering whats already in the surrounding area, add in the fact that Metrolink ” Big bang ” scheme would actually have its own station right on the doorstep under Picadilly, this must be a developers dream.

    • Hi JW, Have you seen the half page article in The Sunday Times where Cheryl Gillan, Welsh Secretary has dared Cameron to sack her over HS2?

      I think perhaps the piece in your post about Lidington and the MPs being unaware of HS2 will now be rather out of date, given that she has allowed her constituency party chair to write to all Tory MPs calling on them to rebel against the Govt. and stating she will resign the whip.

      I suspect that other papers will take up the story, and that people up and down the country – including students, and others mentioned in your post – will, if they haven’t already – start to investigate more, and who knows, look at this and other HS2 sites and act accordingly.

      It would be great to think that there is an enormous army of anti HS2 protestors who have the time and wherewithal to travel at their own expense up and down the country addressing thousands of WIs, student unions, factories, workplaces, colleges, hospitals, dentists, opticians, retail outlets about the cost of Hs2 to each and every one of them.

      BUT, the truth is that we are ordinary folk, funded by no-one other than ourselves, spreading the word through letters to the press, our MP, our local rallies etc. But just see what the casting of our little pebbles of effort have achieved – the ripples are spreading ever wider over the pond.

      Ms Gillan has been under an enormous amount of pressure by her constituents to support them or resign – and she has chosen to represent those who voted for her. People power works in mysterious ways!!

      • Do you not think that Cheryl Gillan has already agreed with Cameron that she’ll be allowed to vote against HS2? She could not possibly be in the Cabinet and not have discussed this. If she hasn’t, and she’s just gone ahead and made this ‘threat’ then I’d say her cabinet career is pretty much dead in the water. And I doubt very much she’s put herself in that position.

        • Ian, yes I agree. Perhaps I’m too cynical but I suspect that there is a tacit understanding that the government will let local politicians campaign and vote against HS2 and ultimately offer additional mitigation and compensation in response to their efforts so that they can claim it as a “victory” for local residents.

  5. Some one has drawn a child like scribble and sent it to the Telegraph. I’m not surprised by the map, it is a blatant attempt by anti groups who are quickly loosing support from the very locals they were supposed to be representing to drum up support from the North. What is surprising though is why the Telegraph even ran with the story. As one commentator said “Well, anyone can draw a line on a map. And that’s the extent of this story: someone. drew. a. line. on. a. map.”.

    If that is the best ‘experts’ can come up with then surely it casts doubt on the the validity of the content of the rest of HS2AA’s site.

  6. When the Trent Valley was four tracked a few years ago the four-tracking did not cover the entire West Coast Main Line. North of Rugeley the line divides to Stoke,Manchester and the Main Line continues to Stafford – but on only two tracks. The “pinch point” through Shugborough was never addressed as part of four tracking so freight has to compete with Virgin main line passenger traffic and local Trent Valley services run by London Midland.
    HS” does not address this “pinch point” because it intends to use the exisitng track north of Rugeley.
    It would be simpler and cheaper to build another tunnel under Shugborough and continue four tracking from Rugeley to Stafford.
    The possible Y map shows only Manchester but not Liverpool, yet the consultation document shoes a journey time of 1 hour (reduced from 1 hr 34 minutes) from Birmingham to Liverpool. How will this faster time be achieved? Page 16 in the consultation summary shows proposed journey time of 49 mins from Birmingham to Manchester (save 40 mins) and central Manchester to London West End in 1 hr 20 mins (save 69 mins)
    The figures relating to Birmingham are all meaningless because they do not compare like with like – at present passengers have flexibility to use Birmingham International station (airport, better parking and numerous business parks within five minutes). Existing trains using New Street bring pasengers in to the heart of the city with access to/from local/commuter services. How will they reach Curzon Street?
    It would be better for any HS2 line to pass through Birmingham International (thereby linking Heathrow and Birmingham airports)
    If the proposed Y route is not to go into the heart of Sheffield but to be a South Yorkshire interchange then International is sufficient for the Birmingham connection
    Birm ingham does not need a fast train to London – it does need a circular metro system akin to the District and Circle lines on London Underground.

    • hs2 will pass by birmingham international as there will be a station adjacent to the nec/airport.

      there will also be trains running over hs2 to points further north so there will be no need to change trains in central birmingham. this is how the liverpool service will be faster as it will use hs2 as much as possible. with the extra capacity that hs2 will bring (the main reason why it is required) maybe any local trains from the west which terminate at new street now will be extended to international to interchange with hs2

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